Curse

MelechRic · Oct 01, 2006, 05:43 PM // 17:43

It's weird. I see people saying they buy eBay gold. I'm left wondering why? Everything I've gotten in this game I've gotten through my own effort. I've come up with a build for farming whatever I wanted. If I couldn't farm it with what characters I had, then I found something I could farm and trade for what I wanted. I managed to go through this game starting with nothing more than a starter bow and pre-searing armor. I worked my way up to my first million and beyond. It wasn't easy, but I did enjoy myself while doing it.

It strikes me as odd that you're playing a game and yet you don't want to take the time to acquire things by the rules of the game. Why even play then? You could have all the best gear and stuff right off the bat, but would it be any fun at all? You could be run through each and every mission. Would that be fun?

I doubt it.

If you do those things then I feel you're wasting your own time. You've reduced what could be a fun passtime into a wrote exercise. I'm certain that people who spend a few hours a week trying to farm a bit of gold or an item or two are still having far more fun than the player who twinks his characters with eBay gold. There is no sense of accomplishment for that player. And please don't tell me you intend to PvP... if your were purely a PvP person you'd know that gold is entirely irrelevant to PvP. You have unlocks for all your needs.

Yawgmoth · Oct 01, 2006, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Inflation is an effect of the increasing amounts of gold in the economy. Just like in real world.
Now some of the fresh new gold that enters the economy comes from bots and professional farmers that sell it on eBay. We only don't know really how much. Because there are lots and lots of casual farmers, just normal player who farm gold for own use, and that gold also enters the economy.
I think that the % of gold coming from bot sources is relatively low, maybe 5% of what all normal people farm or just get by doing missions and quests

Another fact is that bots/professional farmers don't always farm pure gold. They very often farm golds/greens/upgrades/materials thus increasing the supply of them and actually lowering prices of those (i always get cheapest stuff from them

And they sell those items to players for ingame gold, then they resell the gold at eBay. By doing this they DON'T increase inflation but in fact decrease prices of some goods.

Runners don't affect the economy at all, period.
Traders have a very limited power of affecting prices, cus we all know prices come from both sides - the supply and demand, and so-called power-traders are either one side or another.

And buying gold for real $$$ seems to be not popular in Europe, most people (like me) think it's completely retarded. Is it that much different in America?

KamikazeChicken · Oct 01, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

The GW "economy" will remain in a state of disarray, until the auction house feature is implemented. Nothing in the game has been able to reach its equilibrium price because there's absolutely no way to determine true demand for an item. This causes the seller to be unsure where to price said item, and that's where you get 100k+ecto prices.

Taurohtar · Oct 01, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu

Buying low and selling high, Is when you buy it most times from someone who doesn't know the market price. And then sell it for the current market price.

And very brave admiting to breaking the rules of the game without posting your characters name

I really don't care if you've ebay-ed gold or not. And lets not beat up to harshly on him just for admiting it. People do it and his opinion is welcomed on the matter.

According to the definition of buying low selling high I see that as more of a "crime" than botting. Atleast bots don't take advantage of 'newbie' players to make a bundle. Just to clarify, I don't run bot programs.

I might have posted my characters name in previous posts but it doesn't really bother me too much. I don't mind spending out of game money for ingame currency. I'm 17 and have a secure apprenticeship therefore a fair sized and consistant income. There are only so many T-shirts and pairs of jeans you can buy to go clubbing, and also, so many rounds you buy for your friends before you catch them out for not buying drinks themselves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamikazeChicken

The GW "economy" will remain in a state of disarray, until the auction house feature is implemented. Nothing in the game has been able to reach its equilibrium price because there's absolutely no way to determine true demand for an item. This causes the seller to be unsure where to price said item, and that's where you get 100k+ecto prices.

I am very anxious to see what the Auction House comes out like, if there even will be one. There will be a very high demand to use this. So many people selling those extremely common Req9 15%^50% Shadow Blades will drop their price rapidly. And as for those rare skins, let's say a Req8 15%^50% Sephis Axe, if it is the only one Auctioning it may sell for a very high amount.

elLOCOmutha · Oct 01, 2006, 06:59 PM // 18:59

With the ammount of people coming to Guru's website to sell,check prices etc..they control the economy of guild wars.

Anet has basicly handed over the economy of the game to Guild Wars Guru lol

Anet should have had its own OFFICIAL website forums. I still think they need to create an Official forums and post its own guides to weapons, mods, runes and all the other things that have an impact on GW economy.

Guru does a poor job with keeping up to date on prices but people still read and follow them...why I will never understand.

P!zz@ · Oct 01, 2006, 08:07 PM // 20:07

In the German community, there used to be a list where people could enter the price they sold/bought something, and then someone calculated the average price for items and entered it so that people could check what things were worth. It was a nice idea.

However, the list was so horribly out of date and often had so rediculous high prices (probably affected by power sellers trying to push up prices) that it was quite irrealistic.
Anyways, most people still sticked to it. COnversations went like this:

A: WTB Upgrade XXX
B: I've got one
A: Ok, I'll pay 7k
B: But list says it's 18k.
A: But...
B: LOL n00b
B ignores you.

Skyy High · Oct 01, 2006, 08:14 PM // 20:14

The "botters create inflation" argument is shot dead by the fact that prices are lower now than they have ever been. Across the board, weapon prices are down (barring crystallines, the "most desireable" skins do not fetch prices even CLOSE to the most expensive skins of only a few months ago). Material prices are in general down (ectos have been nice and constant, but shards have dropped), dyes have dropped massively (save black, which is now the only one worth trying to sell), and runes have just died. Obviously prices will jump up again when the new chapter comes out, as everyone is trying to buy armor, dye it, and equip themselves with the hottest new gear, but give it a few months and they'll fall down again.

Why people are talking about market problems NOW, of all times, I can't fathom.

Tainek · Oct 01, 2006, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan90

What rock have you been hiding under? Farming bots do have an impact on the economy due to the use of the money they farm. They inflate the GW prices.

i Was reffering to AFK bots, Not farming bots, and even Farming bots are up for debate, as they might pump money in, but they also sell golds and greens (read: lower prices) and i'll wager that the majority of Ebayers buy FoW and 15K (Read: Money sink, causing a net defaltion)

Its ALL speculative, nobody knows if farming bots deflate or inflate

Malice Black · Oct 01, 2006, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

With the ammount of people coming to Guru's website to sell,check prices etc..they control the economy of guild wars.

There is no way one site will manipulate the market its just not possible.

Quote:

Guru does a poor job with keeping up to date on prices but people still read and follow them...why I will never understand.

Guiidlines need assitance from the people that use them to work.

Rain Nights guideline is a prime example of this, many people openly criticised the fact it was out of date but did they offer any info to update it? that's a big fat no.

I myself had a guideline stickied in the PC forum for unid but I had it removed due to the fact the ability to test unid became common knowledge and prices plummeted. I have to admit my guideline got a lot more help/info then Rains did however.

Quote:

According to the definition of buying low selling high I see that as more of a "crime" than botting. Atleast bots don't take advantage of 'newbie' players to make a bundle. Just to clarify, I don't run bot programs.

Taking advantage of a newbie is hardly a crime. The newbie has all the means necessary to check up on prices etc through guild/sites/friends.

Loviatar · Oct 01, 2006, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

The "botters create inflation" argument is shot dead by the fact that prices are lower now than they have ever been. Across the board, weapon prices are down (barring crystallines, the "most desireable" skins do not fetch prices even CLOSE to the most expensive skins of only a few months ago). .

have you been living under a rock or just brain dead to what has been going on?

there have been many posts on the panic get what i can before its worthless sales all over.

and you equate a panic fire sale with botting?

and you wonder why prices dropped now ?

when bots have been here the whole time?

sheeesshhh

Malice Black · Oct 01, 2006, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High
The "botters create inflation" argument is shot dead by the fact that prices are lower now than they have ever been. Across the board, weapon prices are down (barring crystallines, the "most desireable" skins do not fetch prices even CLOSE to the most expensive skins of only a few months ago). .

Prices dropped due to increased drop rate and over farming.

Chapter based skins also fall due to the fact that there will always be a new "desired" skin when a new chapter is released.

Faction items were grossly over farmed that is why they fell so fast.

Giga Strike · Oct 01, 2006, 09:44 PM // 21:44

prices will only continue to go up at this rate, which is why i recommend u be able to get your own stuff. the top 2 things that will negatively effect the economy are:

Guild Wars store: through this online store made by anet player are just paying real world money for ingame money and items.
Noobs: noobs who have no idea how much things go for will pay higher prices for things and steadily increase the average price of items.

the way i see it, its the guild wars store thats really killing the economy. my neighbor buys all his money from the store and now has 5 sets of 15k armor. this is just making the rich in the real world powerful within and damaging to the economy of guild wars.

elLOCOmutha · Oct 01, 2006, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Admins Bane

There is no way one site will manipulate the market its just not possible.

Guru frequently has Gaile posting here, this is the largest most popular website forums for Guild Wars. This forum has the busiest buying/selling forum of any.

It is very possible for one website to manipulate the market, people come here and trust the outdated prices etc..new players and veterans. You ask any player selling inflated priced items where they found the price for the item they are selling and 9 out of 10 times they will say Guru.

Anet needs to do something about this but probably likes the fact that they dont have to run a forums and moderate it. Its has and will be the downfall of this game/games. The Guild Wars economy is in ruins and economies make or break games. Why do you think they needed to step in and fix sigils? or why did they fix runes? Because the inflation was killing the game. Anet prides themselves on being anti level grinding and anti uber weapon but what has taken place of that is rare skins. Look on eBay and check out the prices on so called "Uber rare" Crystalline Swords/Dwarven Axes lol its rediculous and pathetic.

A healthy game economy means a healthy happy game and players of the game.

Look at the botom of the main page at the whats going on section. This website has 2600 people viewing it right now and over a million members lol not counting the guests that frequent it. Guru has an impact on the GW buying and selling economy.

CalypsoX · Oct 01, 2006, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Those who say it's people who cause the inflation hit it right on the nose. More specifically, it's people with lack of information on prices. Any price information is propagated by (surprise!) people. The problem is that without an in-game system to see this information (say, an auction house), this information will always be out-of-date and not nearly as accurate since it does not reflect the entire game's player base. This is the fundamental flaw in the game, and ebay/botting is a way deal with it.

Malice Black · Oct 01, 2006, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

It is very possible for one website to manipulate the market, people come here and trust the outdated prices etc..new players and veterans. You ask any player selling inflated priced items where they found the price for the item they are selling and 9 out of 10 times they will say Guru.

The math doesn't add up

GW has sold 2+ million copies
At least 1 million of these copies are active
Guru has 100,000+some change as registered posters (couple thousand lurkers)

at the very most 1 in 10 of people would have visited GWG in their GW life time.

1 in 10 people is not a big enough number to manipulate anything. I'd agree Guru has some influence on the market but there is no way in hell one website will control the market.

Perth68 · Oct 01, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu

My personal ideas are such
Bots have very little impact upon game play. Sure they make it easier for newbs and lazy players to get that 100k extra. But what effect does that have upon the game? I can farm just as hard as a bot and still have the same amount of gold as what they sell.

no, you can't farm as hard as a bot because you cant play 24/7 without killing yourself. Bots bring a lot more monetary power in guild wars and allow players to consolidate it. Meaning lazy players dont get the extra 100k, no they get the extra 1,000k and then don't care enought about that money to spend it wisely nor have the market savy to really now what prices are.

I would agree though that many people who have been here along time also have a lot of money they have no idea what to do with and its those people who also have the largest reserves of money. But botters increace the ammount of people able to pay high prices regardless which keeps them high. Botters do negatively impact the game, and anyone who utilizes ebay or any other site to buy gold is part of the problem.

but the main reason the economy inflates is because the money supply is constantly getting larger. Monsters are continually dropping far more money then there is coming out of the economy, its that simple.

thinking that a site like guru effects prices in a severly negatively effects prices seems flawed to me, if anything increaced price knowledge in a somewhat foggy system like this should benefit the consumer. You're really only able to sell something what people are willing to pay, and I would hope people have a more intrinsic sense of value or want that a site wouldnt majorly manipulate that. Nor do I think that people who tend to sell a lot use this site as a way to form a cartell of prices, I really think that most people really want to get rid off things out of there inventory as easily as possible while still getting a profit, storage is limited in this game so holding on to anything hurts the bottomline.

as for rare skins, its not suprising that they sell for a lot. If they maintain the price they're difficult to farm for ( if they weren't then you'd see the price tank like it does on greens), and everybody or at least a lot of people want them. You have low supply and high demand, its kinda fundemental what the price is going to be like. (particularly considering that people in this game have a lot of dissposible income.)

Jetdoc · Oct 01, 2006, 10:53 PM // 22:53

I've posted on this topic in many, many threads, but in short the price of items is directly influenced by:

1. The amount of gold in circulation. Gold comes in via drops and selling items to the merchants. Gold goes out via armor purchases, key purchases, and material/weapon crafting. Gold also goes out of the economy through saving - accumulating wealth in storage or investing in rare materials (since those are purchased at the material trader).

Bots DO affect the economy, by increasing the gold that comes into the game by constantly getting drops.

2. The scarcity of the item. The item may be statistically one of the best items in the game, but if it's relatively easy to get, it's still gonna be cheap.

So, if you combine #1 and #2, THAT is why you get items the cost 100K+ ectos.

Malice Black · Oct 01, 2006, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

I've posted on this topic in many, many threads.

Join the club

it's always interesting to see what weird and wonderful ideas people come up with..makes for interesting reading material lol

Divinus Stella · Oct 02, 2006, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

And buying gold for real $$$ seems to be not popular in Europe, most people (like me) think it's completely retarded. Is it that much different in America?

Sadly yes, in the euro districts its not as much of a problem, but on american servers some people think of ebaying gold as part of the game, its the same with a lot of pvp players also, they dont care for pve but they want the fissure armor and rare skins so they ebay for it, ive heard people talk about ebaying cash a lot on vent when in HA teams, the usual reason is they hate farming or think pve is too noob for them.

GUE Tech · Oct 02, 2006, 12:38 AM // 00:38

It's a false economy.. I think everyone is forgeting that in an instant the devs can make the economy do whatever they want. To think that bots and spammers control it, means that you are deceived.

2 examples:

1. I know someone that had just bought a HoD Sword, just before Factions came out.

2. Superior Absorbtion.

All I am saying is that, sure the economy is given some room to seem realistic, but at any moment ectos and black dye could fall from the sky, if they so choose. I am not saying they will, but if they see a gross imbalance, be sure it will be fixed.